Here are message from Alan Gilchrist trying to convince me that there
is evidence for newborn babies perceiving shape and size correctly on
the first day. The message include my message to which he respondes.

<p>

Like all infant studies, these studies are based on looking time, and
therefore cannot actually tell us much about processes inside the
baby's brain, independently on the age of babies on which the
experiments were done. Nevertheless, it is interesting to see how he
tries to twist the evidence in respect of the age of the babis. 



<p> 

Notes:

<li> He says that the mean age was three days and the youngest were 7
and 9 hours old, trying to imply the 7 and 9 hours babies gave
positive results (<a href="bits.html#implication">lying by
implication</a>). But the resuls of the studies could be entirely from
the older babies (4 and 5 days old). He doesn't claim explicitly that
the youngest babies showed positive results, presumably because that
is false and he wants to avoid an explicit lie.

<li> He says here that "first day" "may be a slight exaggeration",
but in the review on which my question was about (<a
href="myths.html#shapes">See here</a>) he not only talks about first
day, but explicitly bases his argument on the "newborn learn something
so sophisticated in a matter of hours". So in the review he felt that
it is important to emphasize that it is "matter of hours", presumably
because he thought that using three days, as the mean age really was,
is not convincing.

<li> I didn't actually read the articles, because they are quite old.
I looked (a little) for newer research which reproduce or refer to
these studies and didn't find any. If you do, <A
HREF="mailto:yh@maldoo.com">let me know</a>.

<p>

========================================================<br>
<b> First message </b> <br>
========================================================<br>
<pre>
From: "Alan" <alan_psychology.rutgers.edu>
To: "Yehouda Harpaz" <yh@maldoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: What babies recognize in the first day

On 6/8/03 8:13 AM, "Yehouda Harpaz" <yh@maldoo.com> wrote:

>
> Dear Alan Gilchrist,
>
> In your review of "Why We See What We Do: An Empirical Theory of Vision",
> (nature June 2003 Volume 6 Number 6 p 550), you wrote:
>
>    "Infant habituation studies show that size and shape are
>      perceived correctly on the first day of life."
>
> Can you give me some references for that?


Talking about "the first day of life" may be a slight exaggeration, but not
much:


Slater, A., A. Mattock, et al. (1990). "Size Constancy at Birth: Newborn
Infants' Responses to Retinal and Real Sizes." Journal of  Experimental
Child Psychology 49: 314-322.

Slater, A. and V. Morison (1985). "Shape constancy and slant
perception at birth." Perception 14: 337-344.

-----------------------------------------
Alan Gilchrist, Professor
Psychology Dept.
Rutgers University
Newark, NJ 07102
(973) 353-5440 Ext.227
Fax: (973)353-1171
----------------------------------
</pre>
========================================================<br>
<b>Second message </b> <br>
========================================================<br>
<pre>
From: "Alan" <alan_psychology.rutgers.edu>
To: "yehouda harpaz" <yh@maldoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: What babies recognize in the first day

On 6/9/03 3:35 PM, "yehouda harpaz" <yh@maldoo.com> wrote:

>
>> Talking about "the first day of life" may be a slight exaggeration,
>> but not  much:
>
> If it is an exaggeration, even slight, then why write it?
>


Because I think its a fair summary of the situation.  The mean age was less
than three days, but the youngest babies in the study were 7 and 9 hours
old.
</pre>